Friday, January 27, 2012

DTS and nonsense about the Holy Spirit, part 2

So, continuing with the stuff in "Prophetic Session".

What Prophecy is?
1 Corinthians 14:3
3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. (from New International Version)

Ok, so, how does she see this verse.

Now this is the guidelines for prophesy (strengthening, encouragement, and comfort). If the word you receive for someone fits in those three things then it’s ok to speak, if its not then you need to seek God on how to make it fit into those three things.


And right about here, we start running into problems. When, for example, the Old Testament prophets spoke the words God gave to them, they didn't really seem to go about the process of editing it, or putting some kind of positive spin on it, and I would guess such a thing was rather discouraged. When, for example, God gave Moses the Ten Commandments, with all those "Thou shalt nots..." in the Hebrew of that day, it seems that Moses wasn't allowed to make those rules say anything else, like "How about if you did X".

Nope, it was all "Thou shalt not...".

And when, for example, the prophet Samuel was sent to King Saul when the king had fouled up in not obeying the explicit command of the Lord, Samuel wasn't allowed to put a nice spin to what God had told him to say. Nothing like "I know you did a good job in the battle, but God says he's a bit unhappy with you for not doing exactly as he commanded." Nope, it was all rebuke, straightforward and simple.

Using her take on it, I can't help but think that she would have problems with Peter in the account early in Acts when the couple Ananias and Saphira lied to the Holy Spirit, Peter publicly rebuked them, and even predicted that the wife would join her husband in death for their sin. And she sure wouldn't go along with what John wrote in Revelation, with Jesus rebuking the churches like that. I can imagine she would have insisted that John "seek God on how to make it fit into those three things".

Prophecy should be happy and positive. Wow.

And now, for a bit of double-speak.

Now once you receive something from the Lord sometimes you have to interpret it.
It is just important to ask the Lord the interpretation of something as it is asking for the word.
It is important we don’t put our own interpretation in it.
Don’t judge by what we see in the natural.
If you don’t get an interpretation and you know God wants you to share it with someone then go ahead and give the word.

So, on the one hand, "It is just important to ask the Lord the interpretation of something as it is asking for the word". On the other hand, "If you don’t get an interpretation and you know God wants you to share it with someone then go ahead and give the word". Which kinda puts the kabosh on the first statement, doesn't it.

How we say a word is also very important.
Our tone of voice.
Our wording.
Don’t say “thus says the Lord”


Oh, of course. God's speaking to you, telling you to say something (even if you are having to come up with a way to phrase in a positive, listener-friendly, politically- or religiously-correct way), but you shouldn't really say "Thus says the Lord" or anything similar, right?

Really? Why? If it's really God telling you to say something, don't you think God wants to be credited with the message? Didn't the prophets of old say that God had told them to speak, and that the words were God's and not their own?

But...wait for it...

Mistakes Will Happen
When people first begin launching out into the prophetic they will make mistakes.
God is not critical and harsh with us as we are learning to minister.
Ministering prophetically is obeying God and serving His children in love
God does not expect instant maturity from us.
We must understand that the Lord not only allows, but also expects us to make mistakes as we begin in ministry.

Ooooooooohhhh. Now I see. All this reliance on vague feelings, inner and quiet voices, and all that jazz, well, it just means you maybe-possibly-hopefully-almost positively-mathematically certainly-don't quote me on it-not completely sure-wouldn't swear by it in court that God was the one really speaking to you.

In other words, it may not have been God. Or if it was God, you may not have heard Him correctly. You know, it's just so hard to understand Him when He speaking with the still small inner quiet voice that Scripture says nothing about. You really have to have your spiritual hearing aid cranked up in your spirit ear to hear that still small inner quiet voice.

Now, what does the Bible say about this?

Deuteronomy
de.18.15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; de.18.16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. de.18.17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. de.18.18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. de.18.19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. de.18.20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. de.18.21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? de.18.22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Brown, David; Fausset, A. R.; Jamieson, Robert (2011-06-02). Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary on the Whole Bible (best navigation with Direct Verse Jump) (Kindle Locations 120747-120761). OSNOVA. Kindle Edition.

Jeremiah
je.28.1 And it came to pass the same year, in the beginning of the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah, in the fourth year, and in the fifth month, that Hananiah the son of Azur the prophet, which was of Gibeon, spake unto me in the house of the LORD, in the presence of the priests and of all the people, saying, je.28.2 Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying, I have broken the yoke of the king of Babylon. je.28.3 Within two full years will I bring again into this place all the vessels of the LORD's house, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon took away from this place, and carried them to Babylon:† je.28.4 And I will bring again to this place Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, with all the captives of Judah, that went into Babylon, saith the LORD: for I will break the yoke of the king of Babylon...je.28.15 Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie. je.28.16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the LORD.† je.28.17 So Hananiah the prophet died the same year in the seventh month.

Brown, David; Fausset, A. R.; Jamieson, Robert (2011-06-02). Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary on the Whole Bible (best navigation with Direct Verse Jump) (Kindle Locations 146481-146516). OSNOVA. Kindle Edition.

Ezekial
eze.13.1 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, eze.13.2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;† eze.13.3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!† eze.13.4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts. eze.13.5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.† eze.13.6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word. eze.13.7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? eze.13.8 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD. eze.13.9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD. eze.13.10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:† eze.13.11 Say unto them which daub it with untempered morter, that it shall fall: there shall be an overflowing shower; and ye, O great hailstones, shall fall; and a stormy wind shall rend it. eze.13.12 Lo, when the wall is fallen, shall it not be said unto you, Where is the daubing wherewith ye have daubed it? eze.13.13 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even rend it with a stormy wind in my fury; and there shall be an overflowing shower in mine anger, and great hailstones in my fury to consume it. eze.13.14 So will I break down the wall that ye have daubed with untempered morter, and bring it down to the ground, so that the foundation thereof shall be discovered, and it shall fall, and ye shall be consumed in the midst thereof: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. eze.13.15 Thus will I accomplish my wrath upon the wall, and upon them that have daubed it with untempered morter, and will say unto you, The wall is no more, neither they that daubed it; eze.13.16 To wit, the prophets of Israel which prophesy concerning Jerusalem, and which see visions of peace for her, and there is no peace, saith the Lord GOD.

Brown, David; Fausset, A. R.; Jamieson, Robert (2011-06-02). Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown's Commentary on the Whole Bible (best navigation with Direct Verse Jump) (Kindle Locations 148662-148694). OSNOVA. Kindle Edition.


Read those passages, and see that God does not take so lightly the giving of false words of prophecy as Amy Sollars wants us to believe. See that God really was and is very critical and even harsh when people presume to say that God has told them to say something when He really hasn't. God isn't as blase about it as Sollars, and I presume those she learned from (hi, false apostles and prophets at IHOP KC).

And Sollars telling people to not say "Thus sayeth the Lord" or words to that effect is simply a cop-out. Simply saying something wishy-washy like "I feel like God is saying to you that..." doesn't negate the fact that the person is presuming to speak for God. If anything, it's a cowardly way of trying to get the respect and even fear that true prophets had, without taking the responsibility that the true prophets lived under.

If I knew nothing else about Sollars, her statements like "God is not critical and harsh with us as we are learning to minister" and "We must understand that the Lord not only allows, but also expects us to make mistakes as we begin in ministry" would be enough to convince me that she is a false prophet and false teacher.

And this woman presumes to teach DTS skulls-full-of-mush about the Holy Spirit. That is unacceptable. Youth With A Mission needs to look at this woman's teachings, see how unscriptural they are, and keep her from spreading her false ideas to the people who attend their schools and expect to be taught biblical truth. Because with her teachings, they are not learn anything biblical at all. YWAM needs to hold her accountable for misleading those who spend thousands of dollars to listen to this kind of garbage, and YWAM needs to hold itself accountable, or someone needs to hold YWAM accountable for allowing such nonsense to find a place in its midst.

It is to YWAM's shame that this woman is allowed to spread her nonsense in their schools, and they need to repent of that and ensure that all that is taught in their schools is biblically sound, and that such purveyors of false doctrine either accept correction or are given the heave-ho.

No comments: